Crafting Legacies: Unveiling Personal Narratives

Dr. Katie Spencer, Founder & CEO                                                                                                                                                                         

Northbound Consulting                                                                                                                                                  

katie@northboundconsulting.co

Dr. Katie Spencer, MA, Psy.D, is a highly sought next-gen specialist, coach, speaker, trainer, legacy book curator, and family dynamics facilitator. Katie weaves together her personal experience as a next-gen, expertise in human behavior and business, and gift to help people connect with each other and their purpose, into Northbound’s bespoke experiences.

Katie has always focused on having a positive impact in the world. She began her career as a humanitarian, working for government and non-profit organizations throughout Africa. She then became a clinical psychologist specializing in trauma as well as organization and group dynamics. When her family invited a consultant to proactively work them to enhance communication and have open dialogue about wealth, she recognized the magnitude of impact she could have in the world by supporting families like hers. 

She believes in taking a proactive approach to building foundational family dynamics, de-stigmatizing the challenges that come with affluence, and intentionally integrating wealth into individual and family identity. Katie's work empowers people to live the lives they want to be remembered for. 

Born out of her experience with multigenerational families, Northbound Legacy Books have evolved into one of Katie's most important and creative responses to questions about legacy and next-gen engagement. "The power of story, to define and honor legacy while capturing interest and engagement, is unrivaled." Katie has an incredible team that connects families through the process of creating this cherished keepsake.

Katie lives in beautiful Evergreen, Colorado with her husband, two kids, two dogs, one cat, and horse, Louie. In recent years she has integrated horses into her team of healers. You can often find her hiking in the woods,at the barn, downhill skiing, or curled up on the couch with a novel. 

More than anything, she values connection.

Kirby Rosplock 

Welcome to the Tamarind Learning Podcast. My name is Dr. Kirby Rosplock and I'm the host, and today, I'm thrilled to have Katie Spencer with us and we're going to be talking about a topic that's pretty near and dear to my heart, which is the topic of Legacy. Now, Katie has spent a lot of her career focused on this topic, and I'm going to let her tell you a bit more about her practice and how she came to this work. So, welcome, Katie. 
 
Katie Spencer 

Thank you, Kirby. I'm happy to be here. And yes, so I am doctor Katie Spencer and I have a practice called Northbound Consulting. I've focused a lot on family dynamics, coaching, facilitation, and helping families identify and articulate their legacy as a critical part of that family dynamics process. I came to this work through my own personal experience as a G5/G6 family member. Generations 5 generations 6. On both sides of my family, we started working with a consultant doing family dynamics work, and immediately felt the impact of having that support, having intentional conversations, and really getting clear what legacy is and means in our lives, how it's a thread across generations. And what it means individually. 

Katie Spencer

I also happened to be, at that time doing my training in clinical psychology, and so I've woven into my work, that experience and human behavior, and facilitation groups with this personnel journey that I will always be on and navigating within my multi-generational family system with my husband and with my kids. So, yeah. That's a little bit about me and how I came to this place.

Kirby Rosplock 

I love that. It's so deeply personal for you and I find that when we work from something that we're committed and passionate about, but then also, we have experienced ourselves, there's that authenticity to a legacy conversation that’s so, moving can be so powerful. 

Kirby Rosplock 

I know you mentioned that sometimes your take on legacy isn't a traditional or conventional approach. Maybe you can talk a little bit more about how you think about legacy. What this legacy journey kind of looks like? And how this can be transformational. 

Katie Spencer 

Yeah. So, Like I said, my mom brought somebody into work with our family and what she's really been an inspiration for me in what I do professionally, how I bring this all into my personal life, and how I think about concepts that we talk about within this space. Such as legacy, the biggest thing. That my mom, one of the most important things she has given me, is the encouragement and the emphasis on legacy being mine. 

Katie Spencer 

Like a legacy to legacy as what you want to be remembered for. It’s what you will be remembered for, that, depending on how you live your life, that will determine the legacy live. You leave behind. And for me, the most important part about legacy and family systems is to acknowledge where's the piece of that. That is multi-generational. And there's something to be honored from generations that came before. But most importantly, that, to me, only goes well, if every individual in the family system, as seen, heard, appreciated, and encouraged to come out with what they want their individual legacy to be. And that has always been my mom's message to us, my dad's as well. You know, how do you want to be remembered in your life? 

Katie Spencer 

And that comes as number one priority long before any conversation about what I hear in this space, a lot of stewarding legacy stewardship of somebody else's legacy, which is an important piece of the conversation. But to me, that's the cherry on top of the Sundae. And if you don't have a really amazing Sundae in front of you, a self- defined legacy, stewardship of someone else's legacy is going to erode family relationships and well-being. So ,I don't know if that's an entirely different spin, but I think I do emphasize different things first. 

Kirby Rosplock 

And when do you find that individuals are ready to sort of think of their personal legacy versus the legacy that they might have inherited or are expected to steward? 

Katie Spencer 

At the core yesterday, I think everybody is longing for someone or a moment in their lives for they're really encouraged to look inward and self- define what they want their footprint to be. You know, how do they want their kids or their partner or their friends or their colleagues to remember them. And I think a lot, most people in the world, not just in the space that we're working and talking, working with them and talking about, aren't given that space. No one's asking that question. 

Katie Spencer 

And, I think, within this space, we're often asking about, how are we supporting somebody, or, like, honoring or living, or stewarding? Somebody else's Legacy that could be 5, 6 generations ago, right? And what the emphasis ends up landing there and staying there at the cost, I think of. But ultimately contributes to both individual well-being and success within a family. 

Kirby Rosplock 

Powerful! So, help me. Also, to start to think about the tension for a multi-generational family that might have lots of different important and interesting storylines as part of this sort of multi-generational side of the family. And then thinking about that now, generation who serve on the precipice of like, where do I where am I going next? And what's important? Talk to me about how you see that tension played out, and how you support that cultivation of the me legacy. Right? 

Katie Spencer 

Well, I think the key word there is tension. And I see this conversation contributing to a lot of tension and a lot of unfulfillment. One story that pops into my mind, and we can go more into, what does it look like in a multi-generational family as opposed to, is it different with the G one family? But the family I'm thinking about was a first generation wealth creator, and then adult family members in their thirties and forties, children, adult children, and their thirties and forties. 

Katie Spencer 

And, you know, the question of, how do we engage? Engage them in the family business? It often starts somewhere in a family business. Engage them and help them steward, thus grow it. Keep it going for they want to become a multi-generational family of wealth, and impact and influence, and so that's always that question that I get is, how do we engage them? How do we hook them in? 

Katie Spencer 

And my process, is with an enormous step back, because what we did within that family system, and how I approach it with a lot of families, is, but, you know, communication skills. Kind of all these foundational building blocks, but really, pulling out and getting to know each individual as though, for the first time. What are their individual values? What are their individuals? Not just strengths, but gifts were they put on this Earth to do. What, what did they want their legacy to be and give them the breathing room, and then the facilitated and guided space around that conversation to hear each other. And it's amazing, even the generation, one family member, there's new things coming out, that their kids never would have heard that have nothing to do with the family business, right? Then hearing. 

Katie Spencer 

So, there's one son in this family system who, you know, is the big question mark around as he ever gonna get his stuff together and get engaged and hook in and steward this story. Turns out he really wanted to be a fly fishing, a fly fishing guide, on a boat in Florida. And this is the first time you've had a chance to really say that, and light up. And then we got to hear the other family members say, wow, like, I just saw a whole different level of energy in this conversation. And, of course, there's a little bit of, like, oh, how's that going to go? 
 
Katie Spencer 

By the end of that year, he was doing this. He had had the support and the conversation with his family. He was successfully employed doing his, pursuing his dream, his own legacy, that's that part of that conversation. And I don't always guarantee this as a result. But he was when he had more space than to say, like, and here are the areas of the family business that actually are intriguing to me, like we invest in different properties and different activities. And like, actually, boats, boats might be able to be part of this conversation. So, he was able to start engaging in what was kind of his dad's and, you know, part of his dad's legacy, and kinda in that stewardship category or as a stakeholder. I like to say, from his own place of empowerment and this is what's actually of interest to me. And it's coming as this additional component in my life, not like my life itself. Kinda paints the picture of how I like to approach that work within a family and have that conversation. 

Kirby Rosplock 

That's so fascinating. And I can imagine that there is this powerful dynamic when we are looking at parents and children, especially, as they're more mature, and sort of coming to their own individuation, and thinking about where they fit in this figure, puzzle about really digging into their legacy, not just the parents' legacy. 

Katie Spencer 

Yes, exactly. 

Kirby Rosplock 

So maybe go back to this multi-generational legacy conversation and dig into us more about how you see that tension or that opportunity. I always think that sometimes tension is really just shift, shifted the other way, and it's an opportunity to unlock, or transform, or help families move that are stuck. Maybe we can dig in a little bit more there? 

Katie Spencer 

Yeah, I totally agree anytime, you know, whether it's tension or conflict. You know, conflict to me, Brene Brown, no, not Brene Brown. Tara Brock says that conflict is basically multiple people coming at something with a strategy to address unmet needs. Which, to me is like, well, that's ripe with opportunity. There's unmet needs here. Their strategy involved, how can we at least shed light on those things and shift it towards growth within a family system? So, I totally agree that it is an opportunity. 
 
Katie Spencer 

Um, well, I guess one thing I was thinking earlier, one of the differences between that G one family I was talking about. And what you can see, tension wise or opportunity wise in a family like mine, you know, or it's 5, 6 generations. Or even we're talking like three generations. It starts getting a lot more complicated. The grooves are in more deeply, and you can have multiple generations of people who haven't identified their own legacy, and they're really focused on and this is simplifying. A complicated conversation, obviously in my response here, even. But the grooves are deep and there's multiple generations who have been stepping into shoes. 

Katie Spencer 

And what I see that maybe they weren't meant to fill, sometimes it can be a process of pounding a square peg into a round hole. And that is happening across generations, and so that the expectation or the bar gets more ingrained within the family system, and I think that that can add an element of it's hard, harder to break out of that, I think, in that G one family. I was just talking about, you know, this is new to them. You know, so when somebody like me comes in and says, have you thought about it this way? Are you willing to approach it this way? There's a little more flexibility and openness. So, it can be a little harder, I think, to rock the boat, or to, to introduce that. 

Katie Spencer 

There's, you know, there's this path we've been on for multiple generations, and there's this fronted road over here. You know, and there's this other trail right here, like, are you willing, willing to look at it? Can, um, be a little harder, the reins can be held on to a bit more tightly, in terms of relinquishing what it looks like in terms of passing down roles, expectations across families, you know, even because we did it this way. 

Katie Spencer 

So, it needs to carry on, you know, my grandmother did it this way and so it needs to carry on, just the groups are a bit, a bit deeper, but at the same time, when we shift that into the opportunity, there's also, people are ready for change. We've been seeing it done this way for many generations, and new Generation is, is coming up with new ideas. And so there can also be a readiness for change that I also see in. 
Yeah, and I think too, honoring the piece. 

Katie Spencer 

One piece I see as helpful for, regardless of how many generations wealth has been on the picture is, when you do honor the legacy of the older generations, there is more likelihood to release some of the control. So, when we don't honor it, that I think the reins are gripped onto more tightly. 

Kirby Rosplock 

Yeah, I think that's a beautiful statement, because that recognition and validation and respect, shown in the form, honoring is also kind of, giving permission maybe to let go. Right? So, I think there's so much that goes into legacy, that can be extraordinarily healing and help with those very tense moments of, but I can't let go. Or, I don't want to like, go. All right. I'm not done yet. And at the same time, I think part of shifting, and what I love about conversation, we're having a shifting that legacy to the now generation helps reinforce that. It's OK. Like you, we can focus on the future and not continually look in the rear-view mirror. We can focus on what we're co creating. 

Kirby Rosplock 

That's next. That gives you permission or gives you comfort, that you don't have to hold on so tightly, right? And fear what's coming. Tell me a little bit more about the legacy letters and legacy books that you create? I'm just fascinated by that. 

Katie Spencer 

Yeah. Well, and actually the family I was talking about earlier is a nice example, too, of the dad. Also. You could feel the sense of relief just when his story was heard. And to see, you know, this was a classic, kind of father son dynamic that I've been weaving throughout this conversation. And the son hearing, you know, this didn't just start out of nowhere. He was, you know, collecting scraps of metal from a rail yard as a teenager. He was so entrepreneurial and he had so many failures along the way and the opportunity to share that story. It's like, he was able to kind of be like, OK, at least my kids really get it. They know how hard I worked and where this, these resources came from. Combined with the son feeling permission to live his own legacy, in addition to like, oh, well, there are pieces of this that are interesting. Like both. It needed to have those. The conversation needed to happen for both. 

Katie Spencer 

The legacy letters and the legacy books are a way to just art to capture that story in a way that's engaging, in a way that hooks you in whether you want to be, you know, there are family members who don't want to be involved at all. And kind of the stewardship conversation and that's often because they have no idea what it even is, right. And if they do it's written or produced in a way that's really not that interesting. It can be really boring to read some of these stories. I've inherited some myself where I haven't even gotten through it yet. But stories and hearing, you know, the origin story, the lessons learned, the failures, the failures and how you pull yourself back up after feeling, those things are really important. And so, to me, there's a spectrum of ways You can document what the story is and the legacy letter or I believe you call it legacy or and letter of intent. There's different ways I think to describe a document and it can have different level levels of depth to it. For me, I really like to have families think, document that their individual values, their family values, if they're there, if they've done that work, which is a whole separate conversation. 

Katie Spencer 

I feel really strongly that family values need to be built on individual values. So everyone can see themselves reflected lessons, learned intentions for resources, like if there are expectations for how resources are going to be used, or expectations for involvement in, you know, the legacy. Making that explicit, and these letters, hopes and dreams for your children, for future generations. It's an opportunity to give words and story to what historically can all sometimes just be passed down in estate planning documents. 

Katie Spencer 

And that's it. And those are the most boring ones to receive. There's very little story involved, and so it's painting out the picture, it's bringing humanity and humor and authenticity into the conversation around resources. Whether it's a bit, whether businesses involved or not, and I think a legacy letter falls somewhere in the middle of the spectrum. I encourage families, if you can just put bullets down, that's better than nothing. Just make sure it's given to everybody, so you're adding clarity. And then all the way down to our legacy books, which can really build out, you know, huge story, pictures, archival documents, all those things. 

Katie Spencer 

And then others do documentary films, which I think are incredibly powerful, and just add a lot more. Meaning to what, you know, as J Hughes and others have written about, wealth can be a meteor or a gift. And oftentimes inheritance lands as a meteor because there aren't. We aren't having these conversations around it and supplementing it, I think with, with these types of, with types of documentation that paint out the story is really transformative in that inheritance process. 

Kirby Rosplock 

Certainly, it's also transformative in the stages of grief, right? So how many people lose significant figures in their family? And they realize they just wish they'd just captured, you know, that last toast at the Christmas or birthday party. Or, you know, that last, you know, toast that they gave at a wedding or something that's just that Christmas card or whatever it is. And I, I feel like another component of this is actually helping get closure. And just the power of legacy as a way to bring closure to Epic chapters in, you know, stories of families that go on. No more than one generation or even if it's a first generation founder. Or just to really memorializing, capture the impact, right? That typically if any of these individuals have, that shapes our own back to our own legacy, right? 

Katie Spencer 

Yeah, it helps with closure, It helps with transitions of leadership, you know, and I don't know anybody, I mean, I guess there could be a very dysfunctional family where this isn't the case, but I think 99.9% of the time. Do you wish your, you know, say so your father dies? Do you wish he'd left a little bit more money? Or that you had those words? Know that you really knew some of his important life lessons and stories and you know, more often than not, that's the most cherished form of inheritance by far. 

Kirby Rosplock 

Well, doctor Katie, you have shared so many great insights. If there were 1 or 2 more thoughts to close out our podcast today, what would you want to leave listeners, viewers around, legacy? 

Katie Spencer 

I think, I always will land on, anytime we're thinking about Legacy, think about it. 
Yours is the most important, and if you're thinking about the wellness of your children, wealth, and resources landing as a gift for your children, I encourage you to be thinking about how to help them define and live out the life they want to be remembered for. And the best way to do that for anybody is to go inward and think about, what do you want? If you were to die tomorrow? You know, what do you want to be remembered for? 

Katie Spencer 

First and foremost, what do you hope people would say about you? And then get really, really honest, and that's the hard work, with what would they say about you right now. And there's always a gap. There's always a gap. So, then, this means nothing legacy means nothing if we don't take action because, you know, actions are what define our legacy. So, identify what the actions are to bridge that gap for yourself, and then rinse and repeat. Over and over and over again. 

Katie Spencer 

I can do this exercise today, define actions, try to fill in that gap to the best of my ability. I guarantee you a few months from now I need to do it again, and to do that for yourself. So, you're living what the life, you know, that you want to be remembered for and help your kids do the same, and then you can talk about honoring the legacies of those that came before. 

Kirby Rosplock 

Fantastic words of wisdom. Doctor Katie Spencer with us from Northbound Consulting, thank you so much for being our treasured guest today on the Tamarind podcast.